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VitaminC

Should we really raise taxes on the well off and give it to the poor?

Is it really a good idea or just away to make us more dependent on our government? In the 80 we got a luxury tax resulting in a loss of jobs of skilled labor in a variety of markets a capital gains tax increase resulting in a make it now don't look to the future business plans. I work in a industry that depends on the wealthy to invest their money in equipment to allow them to make more money, Which they spend part of when they come back for repairs and up grades. With all the tax incentives of the last 8 years we have had an increase in business to the point of turning away work because of a lack of skilled labor, or people willing to pass a drug screening, or show up for work every day on time.
.......:

The increases in taxes will vanish into the vast machinery of Congress and government with a few pennies showing up to "assist" those in need. It's the nature of the beast.

Albert Page:

The bottom line is this. The average income of those in the top 3% tax-bracket - that will see an increase in taxes make roughly $350,000 a year. Their tax-bracket will increase 6.4%. Which if you do the math - means they'll on average pay about 0.5% more a year in taxes than they did this year.
From cover to cover - the whole plan means very slight - not noticable changes when it is all said and done. Furthermore, any and all taxes will not reach any higher than they were when Clinton was in office.
So when you actually sit down and figure out the math.....you realize that all of this talk is just an attack. Not a logical and well-thought out argument. Which, luckily the average American has NO idea how taxes work. So they believe what they hear and don't actually figure everything out for themselves.

Albert Page:

Previously I had offered and example on this site. here it is:
If you are in the 10, 15, 25 or 28% tax bracket - your taxes will be lowered.

IF you are in the 33% or 35% tax bracket, they will be increased . What does this mean though? Let us say a guy (Bert) makes $275,000 a year. He is in the 33% bracket and will actually pay about 28%. Before itemizations.

Obama wants to incease the tax bracket by 6% for those over $250,000/yr. So under this new plan Bert will be in the 39% tax bracket and will actually pay 28.5% in taxes. An overview of this:
As of now Bert pays: 28%
Under new plan Bert pays: 28.5%
His tax bracket has gone up 6%. How is this? Because he'll only pay 39% on $25,000 of his income. Here are his taxes broken down:
$7825 * 10% = 782.50
$24024 * 15% = 3,603.6
$45249 * 25% = 11,312.25
$83749 * 28% = 23,449.72
$89148 * 33% = 29,418.84
$25000 * 39% = 9750

Albert Page:

Also - another thing EVERYONE seems to not get is this:
The tax plan will eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Ok....re-read that. REREAD IT.

Tell people not to worry so much. Sure - you have people who think this tax plan will help the LAZY and help the non-WORKER. Wrong. It will provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured
families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

Oh darn. Senior citizens will get tax cuts? Damn lazy 90 year olds. Oh darn you want to send your kid to college? you lazy scum. They need to stay uneducated and pay higher taxes!

Give me a break. Don't believe all the hype. They depend on people not being able to figure out stuff for themselves. Well....now you know the truth.

VitaminC:

So who eats the cost of the tax increase. are your wages going up to cover the additional cost of the products that will be effected are you so nieve as to expect to cost of these increases will not be passed on to the consumer and have any or no effect on the wealthy. Its just like all the minimum wage increaces we have seen in oregon every time it goes up I call it a pay cut for me as my wages will not go up at the rate they do so I will have less disposable income to spend

NDWind:

" ... the average American has NO idea how taxes work. So they believe what they hear and don't actually figure everything out for themselves."

Exhibit "A" immediately above Albert.

Albert Page:

Albert - I am willing to bet you anything on this planet that if you even take up to 5% of my income away - my lifestyle will not change at all. If you take half a percentage from me - big deal. Who cares? Are people so irresponsible in corporate america that half a percentage point is the end of the world? I think not. Are we that stupid to think that even up to 1% would drastically destroy our lives? Please. I can tell you now that some months I might make 6 grand - other months I might only make 3. But my month to month lifestyle never changes, never alters and I don't have to think about the difference whatsoever. I live within my means, I run my company within it's means and I have more than enough equity in my company to cover some stupid half percent change in taxes.
Maybe I am the only one financially responsible in the business world? Who knows. This is stupid.

VitaminC:

At the company I work for we build 3-10mil dollar boats an increase of taxes means to me less orders due to higher cost of construction materials parts and less income to the buyer.

I WAS THE former RAVEN:

no,
you had made the point with the unskilled labor, being late, filed drug test,, if only if the rest of the country and the lazy realize this. (this happens in almost every job sector) . Then maybe we good to go but that will not never happen.
The new thing now to do is to fire the worker that is going back to school to gain better employment.
Most small business are preparing for the tax increase by cutting back hours and employee 's now in fear of raising their business tax and that is not for us the small guy

Yur Naem:

"it takes money to make money" simply put, If the poor and middle class don't have the money to spend how will the rich get richer? When the cost of living is to high to buy anything, it puts the economy at a stand still. so yes. I believe it can help.

VitaminC:

The thing is I am lower middle class and I depend on the wealthy to provide me with a job what's to stop them from taking their money and leaving the rest of us behind for a more tax friendly country its not such a novel concept its already being done.

Albert Page:

yeah Albert. Here - let me put this in Plain English.
Look at the BIG 3 Car Companies.
Look at the Banking Industry.
IF ANYONE AND I MEAN ANYONE has had HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE tax breaks - it is them.
And look - they screwed us - and themselves so badly millions of jobs are at stake.
When Clinton was in office - the economy was great - unemployement was supremely low,e tc, etc, etc, and the taxes were a bit higher.
Think man.

VitaminC:

During the Clinton years I took three pay cuts went from 38,000 a year to 28,000 a year its taken till this year to get to 40,000 a year thats with changing jobs to a non union company I have reached the highest level of employment in the field I enjoy working in and was at that point when I got the pay cuts with the increases in the cost of living since then I still have less money to spend on the nice things in life than then.

John:

When CEO'S of BIG company's , receive 10 to 25 million dollars in bonus per year for a company they ran into the ground. Well it just don't upset me if they have to pay a little more tax than the middle class that pays most of the tax anyway.

VitaminC:

Then stop buying their products and buy some thing else. that's right we already do this we send it overseas to companies who's countries reward them for creating jobs for people who don't want to take any risks in their life.

Viking:

So it's okay if the failures pay a little more but not the sucesses? Does that mean you'll be upset to see Bill Gates, Oprah, Donald Trump, all the Hollywood actors, pro-athletes, the Kenndy's, the Clinton's, etc. pay more?

Angela:

That argument will carry weight with me when we start complaining about celebrities making million dollar bonus' for making a really bad movie.

Gbob_north:

We pay more in unemployment than we take in in taxes, it is inevitable, our taxes will go up or benefits for the unemployed will go down, what do you think Obama will do? He'll just make the deficit bigger and blame it on Bush, problem solved for another four years....

Gbob_north:

accept that your money will experience inflation, and will end up being worth less, so they would have been better off taking your money and leaving your savings (if you got any) because now you experience the same suffering of having your money taken without any value for the money you have in your hand, which those who work and those who don't work have plenty of.

Reverend Red Mage:

your thinking is very good.off cource yes.Do goverment accept that?

NDWind:

Albert, my friend, you are making just too much sense here! :-)

VitaminC:

I just get tired of people thinking that a tax increase on the well off will actually help them all it will do is create more government and cost and cost. Its basic economics they taught in high school the cost of making a product dictates a lot of how much that product costs the consumer, and that cost includes taxes, wages, and a hole lot of other things. Do people really think the well off are going to take a cut in disposable income with out passing it on to us.

NDWind:

Yes ... I am agreeing with you! :-)

VitaminC:

I know you are agreeing with me its just nice to hear from someone who's head is out of the sand.

Viking:

Isn't that called "redistribution of wealth?" Or is it called "fairness?"

.......:

CSSR comes to mind.

VitaminC:

Look at history every time that has been tried the wealthy moved on the USSR, China, North Korea, Viat Naum at least those who where not shot

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