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CalCarp

What did Congress "bailout" Wall Street, and Auto with? ..We didn't have that kind of money, did we?

The big companies couldn't pay their bills, maybe because a lot of clients couldn't pay THEIR bills, but the big companies DID waste an awful lot, too.A lot of defaulted mortgages got paid off (..delivering the expected profits to the mortgage companies), auto co.'s received cash reserves to pay their ongoing bills(..which are still ongoing), and banks were given cash so that they could still lend money (..without having to lend their own).But whose money was it that got handed out???It couldn't have been tax monies, ..because that account has been overdrawn for years!Were profit-promising bonds sold to people who DO have money, to get that money to Congress, so that Congress could turn around and give it to those big companies who can't pay their bills anymore?Or did Congress just ask the Mint to print up several trillion new dollar bills? ..and then just hand those out to the companies?Doesn't that weaken the dollar? ..dilute its value? ..reducing everyone's bank account?
Dick:

It is all borrowed money, we are going to spend our selves prosperous and strong.

CONSERVATIVEATHEIST:

They used a Visa Card. Sorry but I had to. I agree totally with your statements and inquiries. I realize that we are having trouble with people getting loans and the availability of lines of credit to keep their small businesses afloat but to add to the problem negates the value of money. I didn't answer because this is not my forte but I needed to get that off my chest. I mean, dang. Stop spending what we don't have to pay off bills we can't afford, and stop making me pay the cost of it.

CalCarp:

Ah, ..but you DID answer, Jackie! ..and I thank you for that!
And as far as "not my forte" (.."not being a pro") ..well, I haven't seen YOUR name in the paper as one of those CEO's who "lost" 50 Billion in company funds!
Are there any "experts", ..anywhere?
I think you are right, ..that we need to "stop spending what we don't have",
..my problem is that I can't see how we COULD be "spending it", ..if in fact, we "do not have it"! ..How is that possible??
Who would give us that "Visa Card"?
Where do we send the payments, someday down the road?

CalCarp:

..Was Mr. Blagojevich just trying to do his part to "raise money for the U.S. Congress"???
..Should we sell Alaska back to the Russians?? (..can't drill there anyway!)

Deltajoy:

In all actuality, They are not actually 'bailing' them out. They are purchasing them up. As in 'Socialism' Borrowed money from the Treasury with your name on it makes us the owners of these companies, and it's not going to stop here. Once Obama is in office, unlimited power of the buy up will be in place and you can expect it to put out many smaller companies out of place and the costs of everything to continue to spiral upward. This is something liberals want to happen and promote. Individual liberties stripped and the death of America imminent.

CalCarp:

..uh, ..yes, and no.
I do NOT think ownerships are changing hands, ..are there new stockholder shares being issued out for AIG, Bear Stearns, or General Motors? ..In whose name? ..Who are they being issued to? ..Will "John Q. Public" have a voting seat on the board? ..No.
But I do think you might have hit something there with your thought that this will all "put out many smaller companies .. and the costs of everything to continue to spiral upward".
Cost inflations, market dominations by now-subsidized large companies, and increased regulations, ..all act as difficult to overcome "hurdles" for the start up and continuance of small-businesses. (..Sort of a new "poll tax"!)
Does someone not like small businesses? ..Small, independent, difficult to tax businesses?
Is someone trying to prop-up LARGE business concerns, ..in exchange for what they see as a "securing" of business-tax info and receipts?
Does someone think that tax collections are going to rise as an issue soon?

I WAS THE former RAVEN:

The Auto bailout is a LOAN SO THAT WILL BE PAID BACK unlike the millions of dollars students loans that your doctors and lawyers had never paid back.

I WAS THE former RAVEN:

I am sorry but I am tried of everyone saying that the Auto industry got a bail out when they did not.
the banks DO not have to pay anything back but the GM and Chrysler do.
When you do not have pay anything back that is a bailout.
a LOAN is where pay back the money that was loan with interest.
The banks did not have money to loan out to the business, due to foreclosures' and default of loans.

CalCarp:

Please! ..Don't be sorry, raven!! ..Your thoughts are good!
But I DO think a $15 billion "emergency loan" to cover immediate bills is a bailout!
The U.S. made over 10 million cars last year, ..what happened to that sales money? ..Were they selling too cheap? ..Were they not watching their costs?
Did Congress require them to incur costs (..wages, healthcare, environment?) which are not asked of foreign auto manufacturers? (..then maybe we DO owe it to them!)
Or are the company profits too low because the sales monies were wasted or skimmed?
Sounds like Fed plan wants to increase car sales by supplying money to the company's credit branch, ..why not do the same thing by just buying a new car for every family put outdoors by a home foreclosure?
The 15 billion dollars being considered could buy 1 million new cars for homeless families!

Viking:

If you think the automakers are gong to pay back anything, I have some beach front property in AZ to sell you. That money is going into the unions pockets. It will pay the retirees and laid-off workers. Maybe the UAW should sell it's resort in MI, worth about $30 mil.

CalCarp:

I.ve heard American auto workers cost twice what foreign auto workers cost, But then many of them get their health care for free, ..is that the only problem?
I'll bet the office managers are also happy to see salary ensuring money.
What would happen if auto compressed ALL wages and salaries proportionatly, around the national median wage (..$40,000 dollars?) ..so that everyone's salary moves from where it is right now, ..to a point halfway between their current salary, and that $40,000 median?
A $20.000/yr. worker would get $30,000/yr., ..A $40,000/yr. worker stays right where they are, ..an $80,000/yr. worker would move down to $60,000 (..still well above the national median!), ..and a $200,000 boss would now get only $120,000 next year?
Think our autos could sell cheaper?
They'd be "irresistable"!! ..Sales demand would soar, ..and lots of the unemployed men and women could be rehired at the new job-securing rate!
You're right, ..things would be so good, the resort is needless!

Headache:

I think they just approved it in a panic.....bad move!

CalCarp:

.."a panic"??
I suspect it is more like a lottery winning, ..you know, one of those Madoff-like "Ponzi" schemes?
You know, where the person paid last, is the one who makes off with the most money!
...Who is it in the position of that last person paid?????

DJ:

Even worse than raising taxes: It was done buy creating and selling a mass amount of Treasury Bonds.
At least if they used taxes, the tax could be rescinded by an act of Congress. Treasury Bills just go on and on .....

CalCarp:

Was it T-bills?? ..so they are borrowing from people who DO have money?
..to "rescue" big companies that lost their money?
..when do the people who DON'T have money need to start paying them back?
Will those companies create some jobs so we can earn the money to make those payments?? (..Can they come up with something that will actually sell in the world market?)

CalCarp:

If the spending is using newly created money, ..then we all pay now, through inflation.
If it is done selling government bonds to entice money from "hoarders" using promises of lucrative future interest returns, ..then the public will "pay" later, ..when those payments become due.
Or are we finding that bailout money by selling something off from America?
..to either foreign accounts, or to those "hoarders" who still have money?
(For example, "selling off" a relief from future taxes? ..or a promise to discourage competion from local or foreign entities or technologies?)
Who knows what goes on in the mind of Barney Frank, or Chuck Schumer?

Viking:

We'll just print some more. After all, where's Obama going to get his TRILLIONS to pay for his programs.

CalCarp:

well. ..perhaps he will look in the cupboard, ..see there is little there, ..and come up with a better idea than just "spend"? ..perhaps "let's work for a while first", will become fashionable.

Dcordova:

it will just be printed up -- the american dollar is getting weaker as we speak

CalCarp:

.."printed up"??? ..is THAT how fortunes are made??? LOL!
However there may be even more: News says Fed will extend money to GMAC as long as GM and its major financial partner (.."Cerberus") reduce their ownership stakes in GMAC.
That seems to mean that GM and Cerberus will have to sell their shares in the company, ..or dilute their shares by offering a larger number of shares up for sale to "the public" (..or can the Federal Government buy them? ..I hope not!)
I wonder who is in line to "snap up" THOSE shares??? (..Blagojevich? ..Tony Rezko?? ..Warren Buffett? ...Bill Clinton?? ..Hank Paulson?? ..Harry Reid??)
Why does it have to be so convoluted??? ..so backroomed "smoke and mirrors"??? (..we either buy their darned car, or we don't!!!)
..oh that's right, ..we are all supposed to worry about someone ELSE'S job.
..someone else's vote.

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