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Leese

why does former CIA analyst RAY Mc GOVERN say 9/11 was a inside job?

i should also point out that he served under seven U.S. presidents over 27 years presenting the morning intelligence briefings at the white house.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ray+mcgovern+9%2F11+inside+jo​b
Ssfury:

Because he CAN. You need a new needle for your broken record. (this is the only qn you can post...over & over...)

Leese:

actually cee cee, this is the first time i posted this question. are you saying its not a important question to be asked? how many people in government will it take for you to take notice?

Ssfury:

Yeah....right. If I wasn't so sick, I'd paste them ALL here: http://qna.live.com/ShowQuestion.aspx?qid=0E596BE04EC44F1E8D18BFA6626E​D4E6

Leese:

well ceecee, ray mcgovern and robert steele are not the same people, the first clue should have been the different names, and if you were to post them all you would see that they are all different people who have worked in the CIA. i hope your feeling better soon

Britestar:

If 9/11 was an inside job, why didn't we have stealth aircraft over the cities that had people celebrating in the streets? I thought about faking a 9/11 type attack later just to teach them a lesson. They would think twice about celebrating the death of innocent people.

Leese:

huh?

Britestar:

I cut the search down a bit. Who are crazier, people who were in the CIA or people who pretend to be?

JoH:

very good! nice introspective there =)

Leese:

i never pretend to be if that's what your implying, no need to look at their evidence right?

Britestar:

I have seen documentaries on the conspiracy theory of 9/11 and every other thing someone could sell a book for. It's been looked at and discussed objectively. It doesn't make sense.

Leese:

wow really? well explain building 7 ? even the government cant come up with a lie for that.....they just decided to refuse to investigate it.....have you seen the building fall? not in a million years would that ever happen like that.......explain 7

Britestar:

You only "know" that because you chose to believe what someone told you. Now ask yourself honestly, do you know enough about construction and the site to have an objective opinion of whether building 7 could fall? I have some background but not enough to think I am qualified, and I certainly have never looked at the blueprints of the building or site. Eye witnesses of the aircraft hitting the Pentagon are also said to be false and there is an interstate near there.

Leese:

actually, i know a lot about commercial construction, i know what i know because of much research and experience, i also list to the experts, know that its never happened like that in history, and know that as for the pentagon, if you really dig deep, you quickly see that the official story is full of holes. the government cant even explain 7, does it not strike you as odd that they would not investigate it? giuliani quickly had the steel shipped out of the country. do a google search and look at what buildings look like when they fall down from a earth quake. for the most part, they stay intact, 7 dropped in to its foot prints just like a controlled demolition, is less than 7 seconds from two small fires. oh, and no plane hit it. by the way, the towers were designed to take multiple jet liner impacts. the empire stat building was hit by a bigger plane than the towers were, it did not fall. regardless, buildings just don't fall like that. you listened to what you were told over and over and you wanted to believe it to be true.

Brett:

They are and have been investigating building 7. They had all their resources investigating the Twin Towers first, and when they finished that, they moved on to 7. The steel was shipped across the river to New Jersey, since when was that a different country?

Leese:

stang, that is not the case my friend, it was sent to china and india. how can you investigate how a building fell if you ship the metal overseas ? how do you investigate it now? its almost 2008 ya know.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Destruction_of_Evidence_fro​m_Ground_Zero_at_the_World_Trade_Center

http://911research.com/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/materials/wtc/twintowers.html

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Jan/25776.htm

Brett:

According to the China.org link you gave me, they bid on it and only received 10,000 tons out of 300,000 tons of metal. They didn't receive just metal specifically from Building 7.

Brett:

Sorry India recieved 10,000, and China got 50,000. But that leaves 240,000 tons of mixed metal from all those buildings. And even if it was all Building 7, it was only a 60,000 ton metal structure? It had to be more then that.

Leese:

correct, i was just making the point that it was shipped overseas, but if you do the research, you will find the answers your looking for. several contractors were selected, in more than just two countries as well.

Britestar:

im not ron paul. I've been away from this for awhile, but have just started to read what you have wrote after I left. The empire state building was hit with a B-25. Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Mitchell You will notice by the picture this is not a large bomber. If you doubt this is the plane check the encyclopedia under empire state building: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building The twin towers were hit by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_trade_center Here are the planes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767 Note the picture and tell me which is larger?

How do you figure Guiliani sent the metal overseas? Since when do mayors concern themselves with such things?

Britestar:

Follow up: The twin towers were hit by aircraft 159 feet long and a wingspan of 156 feet. The first hit the North tower from the 94th to 98th floor. The second hit the south tower between the 78th to 84th floor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11%2C_2001_attacksThe empire state building was hit by an aircraft 53 feet long and a wingspan of 67 feet, between the 79 and 80 stories of a 102 story building.

I seriously doubt the world trad center was made with riveted steel. It was probably bolted together. As steel is heated, it's ability to support weight decreases. At some point it will not even hold it's own weight.

Leese:

dubya, you are correct about the empire state building, i did state that incorrectly with regards to it being a larger building. ive research so many such crashes that from time get them confused. however, with regards to the construction of the twin towers, it was constructed with hot rivets, there are several videos available on the construction of the towers in which you can watch the workers throwing and catching hot rivets with tongs and following up with the rivet guns. further, you can also watch videos online of the architects and designers saying that the towers were designed to withstand several jet liner impacts. ill see if i can find some links for you , its been awhile sine I've went down this road.

Leese:

dubya, ahh, ....lol, its all coming back to me now. here's what i was thinking when i made the previous post, the twin towers were designed to withstand multiple 707 jet liner impacts, which is a larger plane than a 747 that actually hit the towers. it was was a b 25 bomber that hit the empire state building. research this guy, Frank De Martini, WTC construction & project manager, and listen to him here in his own words
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5845304695171078909&q=wtc+​towers+designed+for+multiple+jetliner+impacts&total=7&start=0​&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

Leese:

oops.....two comments up i said "larger building".....(before coffee this morning) should have said larger plane.....lol

Brett:

I think the keyword here is FORMER, if he had anything credible to say he would probably still have a job in the CIA. Also who is to say that the CIA didn't put him out there to make these claims to have fun with all these conspiracy theories. If what he was saying is true, don't you think he would have been assassinated already?

Gbob_north:

He'd be silenced...Good call.

Brett:

If this supposed "inside" group was skilled enough to bring down the WTC, silencing someone should be no problem at all for them.

Leese:

many have been, and if they killed everyone who has went public, how would that look? i would think that you would look at why he says what he does as well as every other person in the CIA or FBI saying the same thing. but your probably right, they are just bored and doing it for kicks.....I'm sure you know more about it than they do, no need to look at what they are saying.....wow

Leese:

you going to silence a million people saying the same thing? its to late after they go public isn't it?

Brett:

If there are so many "insiders" that are now speaking out about it, shouldn't there be a clear picture of exactly what happened that day because all these people were "involved"? I have seen/read a lot about the whole "inside job" conspiracy, and the conspiracy's side of the argument still leaves much bigger holes in it, then the argument for what seems to be the more obvious answer to what happened.

Britestar:

People will swear up and down they saw bigfoot, aliens abducted them, nessie, or anything else to get them attention and make a buck out of it. There have been hoaxes ever since there have been people. I guess someone was faking those pictures of the aircraft crashing into the buildings. Without using common sense, how could someone believe anything for that matter, even if you saw it with your own eyes? It could always be a conspiracy to deceive, and life one giant April fools day.

Brett:

Has anyone from the terrorist organizations actually come forward and said that they had nothing to do with it, and the US is lieing and blaming it on them? I would think if that really was the case they would want the American people to know that so that we would riot against the government and basically self destruct from the inside, leaving the terrorists a much easier target.

Leese:

stang, explain building seven, and then we can get in to the mountain of other evidence, dubya, same to you, this has nothing to do with big foot, we seen 7 fall, explain it.....
and stang again, no, no one has claimed responsibility for 9/11, further, the government has not supported their story which is the real conspiracy theory. look, what happened that day with the planes happens hundreds of time a year in which planes are off course. jet are always scrambled in minutes by NORAD. it happened that day four times, no jets were scrambled until it was way to late. when you do the research on that alone, it makes you sick ......

JoH:

I've officially changed my mind, I actually think that Bigfoot did it.

Leese:

i dont put that past you justin

JoH:

crazy monkeys!!! learn monkeys learn!!!

Brett:

About Building 7-
NIST has released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST's interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest façade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south façade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[36][3] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure's integrity.[37] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building's east wall immediately before the collapse, which began at the penthouse floors.[3] In video of the collapse, taken from the north by CBS News and other news media, the first visible sign of collapse is movement in the east penthouse 8.2 seconds before the north wall began to collapse, which took at least another 7 seconds.[3][38]
A progress report was released in June 2004, outlining NIST's working hypothesis.[39][3] The hypothesis, which was reiterated in a June 2007 status update, is that an initial failure in a critical column occurred below the 13th floor, caused by damage from fire and/or debris from the collapse of the two main towers. The collapse progressed vertically up to the east mechanical penthouse. The interior structure was unable to handle the redistributed load, resulting in horizontal progression of the failure across lower floors, particularly the 5th to 7th floors. This resulted in "a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure."[40]
NIST anticipates the release of a draft report of 7 World Tra

Brett:

Claim of responsibility -

Shortly before the US presidential election in 2004, in a taped statement, bin Laden publicly acknowledged al-Qaeda's involvement in the attacks on the U.S, and admitted his direct link to the attacks. He said that the attacks were carried out because "we are a free people who do not accept injustice, and we want to regain the freedom of our nation."

Jim:

I'd love to know how they knew it was going to fall in 5,4,3,2,1-

There were countless witnesses that heard the countdown to a building that fell over because it was scooped out by a fire.

"a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure." HUH?

Did you even see that thing fall? It was as proportionate as they get. That thing fell evenly and smoothly, right into it's own footprint. Collapsing buildings have never done that in history....now, here is the magic day it happens three times!

I have a bridge I'd like to sell you-

Leese:

stang, in bens debunking links below, in his third link, click building 7, there is a very clear photo of the worst of the damage of building seven. it hardly enough damage to support a total spontaneous collapse in its foot prints in under 7 seconds. further, post your nist info, show me the video. have you seen the collapse? you just cut and paste a bunch of double talk though that does not answer the question. the building dropped straight down and disintegrated in it own foot prints. watch some controlled demolition videos on the net, there are many. you need to know what they look like to understand it and it also helps to know what they look like when they fall down from a earth quake, the building stays intact for the most part.

as for the bin laden tape, post the tape, its also been called a fraud and bin laden called it a fraud himself. you can research that for a week straight as well. trust me, I've done it.

Leese:

you need to understand who commissioned the nist report, and understand thay have to produce a answer on a limited amount of evidence. for example, they are not allowed to confront the molten steel present under the towers even six weeks after the fact. what caused that? thermate did.

Brett:

How do you figure the ones who comissioned the report had a limited amount of evidence to work with, and determine what the substance was that appeared to be molten metal actually was, but you KNOW thermite did because the evidence was easily available ON THE INTERNET!

Leese:

stang, are you going to do any research yourself or am i going to do it for you? your questions are short but the answers involved many hours in order to get the full picture. do some research on the commission report, read it for yourself for starters, I've read it three times and still go back and fourth with it today to do fact checking. but to take a stab at your questions anyways, over 503 eyewhitnesses and first responders had testimony banned from the report, over 12000 pages of testimony. that's just a start though. the substance you speak of was not thermite, it was thermate. not the same and thermate in used in controlled demolitions quite often. yes the information is easily available on the internet, not sure what your point is. however, just to name one notable person who tested the molten metal, read david ray griffins book or watch his speeches on the subject on the net. ill post some links for you anyways

Leese:

9/11 commission report
NOTE: this was main stream media reporting and is is just scratching the surface. take the time to read, learn and educate yourself. im sure you will find things are not at all what you thought they were
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3073526959481462945&q=9%2F​11+commission+report&total=341&start=0&num=10&so=0​&type=search&plindex=4

Leese:

here is a barrage of facts about the commission report, however, i encourage you to do the research as i have and apparently 73% of Americans who think their was a government cover up in a poll conducted by the tv show, Entertainment Tonight in which 63,000 Americans were polled.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4407775346316144759&q=9%2F​11+commission+report&total=349&start=10&num=10&so=0​&type=search&plindex=9

Leese:
Leese:

the science of thermate, its uses, and one of several who tested the molten metal for thermate.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-70567237499317904&q=molte​n+metal+9%2F11&total=89&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=​search&plindex=8

Leese:

tell me who is telling lies in this video, nist, or the first responders and those who analyzed the metal. pay attention, listen carefully

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1142370738453714843&q=molt​en+metal+fire+fighters&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0​&type=search&plindex=0

Jim:

The same reason everyone else has that says it was an inside job..... They were paying attention!!!

I'd like to point out on Mr. NRP's behalf, that this is a most important subject- it is tied to everyone!

If it looks like he's repeating himself, My guess would be because he's trying to force your eyes open....like it or not!

Ask yourself-
Have you looked into it?

Did you look at the size of the original hole in the Pentagon and is that the SHAPE OF AN AIRPLANE? (it more resembles a round hole to me.....my eyesight is pretty good-)

Did Rush Limbaugh(or Anne 'the man' Coulter) tell you your opinion of anything you have an opinion on? (you may want to re-think that opinion- Limbaugh is openly on the White House payroll- What does that matter? His opinion was handed to him in memo form)

What are the chances we'd have a Terror attack on the same day... With the same planes.... Crashing into the same buildings....as a drill that had the same scenario going on at the EXACT TIME and day?
Part 2 of that question.... What are the chances that London would have a bombing the same day they were running a drill of a bombing of the same targets? (the chances are about the same as you would have getting hit by lightning while turning in a winning lottery ticket under a blue moon,on leap year)
(I would like a list of 'terror drills' so I can get the hell out of the area before the terrorists figure it out, and coordinate with them, making it really happen)

What about that BBC reporter that read the script about building 7 falling when it was standing right behind her?

The countdown heard by Firemen and police just before Building 7 fell-

Willy Brown getting a call (I guess from a cave in Afghanistan) telling him not to fly on 9-11

The missing film from the security tapes from the Pentagon-(If there really was a plane that hit it, wou

Leese:

thanks sully, most don't know about the drills, but yet they listen to bush and condi say, " we never could have imagined such an attack on our country".......really??? then how can you have drills for the exact same scenario going on at exactly the same time if you cant imagine it?? FEMA arrived the night before in new york and went in to action first think on 9/11 just before the first plane hit. that was even main stream news. the bbc report you mentioned, how can you report a building falling that has not fallen yet and has no reason to fall? there were aver 70 camera angles on the pentagon, why not just show the tape? several of the hijackers are still alive........aviation experts say the pentagon maneuver was imposable as well mr. leer from leer jets, but you first have to do the research to understand what the government is saying about how the plane flew. the flight instructor who trained the pilot that we are told flew the plane in to the pentagon said the guy was a moron and there was no way he could ever pull it off as he couldn't even fly a small single engine plane........it just goes on and on.....

Jim:

I know.... It's sad the TV has turned normally rational people into zombies.
It's tough to swim upstream against the lies brought to you by the shiny happy ever-loving, well meaning, skipping through daises, and saving baby kitties from the mean ol doggie Government.

Oh, well Mr. NRP- I have to get a little more work done before I go back home- or the wife will have my hide! (I don't know why i'm at work at 11:58 on a friday.... I should get some beer)

Back to your whack a mole game!

Leese:

lol......luv ya man.......

Exilyse:

I agree, have done my research, and have sadly concluded most Americans are too lazy to find the truth.

Born Fool:

Because he worked for the CIA? We all know we can trust people from the CIA right? They would never ever try to influence events inside the good old USA right?

Leese:

i would think that you would be interested in seeing what he is talking about, there are over 100 high ranking officials in government saying the same thing. countless experts, and countless unanswered questions about 9/11, just ignore it? no big deal?

JoH:

9/11?? what about Roswell and disco?? explain that!!

Leese:

yah, just ignore it....the next attack I'm sure will be nuclear in several cities, FOX noise will say its iran, and we can invade three more countries, have martial law, go to FEMA camps.....we will know its terrorist because that's what your tv said right?

JoH:

So what your saying is to investigate the inside people? That is best handled by the authorities or else the case will be crapped on.

Leese:

what I'm saying is that you don't let criminals control the investigation. it was literally the guilty calling the shots and deciding what was to be considered. imagine if we did that in our courts.........

Leese:

hi ben, I've researched all the sites you've posted at one point and time I'm sure, the thing is, they don't address the real issues, or they are government sponsored disinformation sites that operate much like the mainstream media. you don't think for a moment that those behind the attacks wont load you down with disinformation do you? what one must do if the want to know the truth is look at what is being presented, and look for answers in sites like what you have provided as i have done. at the end of the day, the site you've posted become laughable. what I've found that people often do is find that these site exist, and rather than put them to the test, they assume they hold valid answers and the part of them that desperately wants to believe its not true over rides and they don't do the research. its interesting to note, we still have not seen the evidence to support the official story that comes from people we know are liars. if there is nothing to cover up, why not have a real investigation? the average joe has no idea of how the 9/11 commission report was done. just doing the research on that will really wake you up. countless people who were part of the "investigation" are saying it was a total fraud and a cover up. when the people who are doing the investigation are saying this, it makes wonder just what the heck is really going on......

Brett:

Give a link to the sites that you know of that have all the correct information about what happened.

Leese:

stang , there are simply to many to list, use google, you will find them for days.

Brett:

but how do I know which ones are true, and which ones are just word-of-mouth facts?

JoH:

Aren't hostage and hijacking situations usually for a reason? Money? Mental illness? What else?

Brett:

You said it for yourself about the sites that Ben provided.

Brett:

"they don't address the real issues, or they are government sponsored disinformation sites that operate much like the mainstream media."

Leese:

stang, just google 911 truth, you will find lots of good hits that way. if your trying to draw a conclusion in ten minutes, good luck with that. but i do hope you take it serious and do the research.
building 7 is a great place to start though to. just google building 7. the first link is quite informative. but they all are for that matter. building 7 and 911 truth......if you raise serious questions, give me a shout, keep me posted, let me know what you discover and learn.

Bellerina:

So, let me get this right, the websites you have posted are right and the websites I have posted are wrong.

I really hope you know that Loose Change was originally written by a 16 year old kid and his friends. Every time they have been refuted they have changed the movie and "updated" it.

BTW, I saw the original and they purport to have gotten a hold of a Top Secret Document that they show in the original. That Document was stamped "Classified." Having served in the Military, you should know that Top Secret Documents are not stamped "Classified," but are stamped "Top Secret."

You should also remember that "Top Secret Documents that are released to the public have to be declassified or it brings prison time. So, if the movie is accurate, why are the makers of the movie not in prison?

I doubt if anything I say can convince you. I have done a ton of research on this myself and to me it is fraud against the American People, because they have no real proof. In fact, individuals that truly believe in many conspiracies hate these about 9/11 because they are nothing more then accusations without proof. Google that one and you will see that many conspiracy buffs are angry with the 9/11 theories for doing that. Because it makes it easier to deny real conspiracies!

Bellerina:

BTW, Here is what Ray McGovern said about 9/11 in an interview on June 26th, 2003 by Will Pitt Journalist for "Truthout":

"On August 6, the title of the briefing was, �Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US,� and that briefing had the word �Hijacking� in it. That�s all I know about it, but that�s quite enough. "
How is it that a brief that said this makes it an inside job rather then a foul up? If this is all Ray McGovern knew, then how is it that others can claim it was an inside job?

Jim:

You did a ton of research?

Did you ever look at the shape of the hole in the pentagon, and compared it to the shape of an airplane?
That is a real hard thing to research-
Just watch the tape roll when a plane hits the WTC building. It leaves a distinct long and wide hole....a huge gash!

Look at the picture of the pentagon right after the 'plane' hit it. How did it make a round hole in that building and leave no evidence of wings- debris or otherwise?
Did the wings vaporize seconds before impact?
Why did the plane that hit the tower make a huge gash of a hole, but the plane that hit the pentagon just make a circle of a hole in the building?

If you really looked into this subject, you would have seen it with your own eyes..... that is the PROOF. It just doesn't fit together! (look at the other points I made below....)


But, as you once said-
"I doubt if anything I say can convince you"

Leese:

ben, ive never seen the first loose change film. i do know there were problems with it. that said, the second edition is accurate as is their final cut just released. also, they did a excellent job with what they did and i would like you to point out what they get wrong in the two films i mentioned. as for ray mcgovern, wow, you really need to do better than that. you could spend a week or two just covering his material. as for accusation without proof, wow....you got a long way to go.

Leese:

if you really want to know what ray mcgovern says and thinks about 9/11, LISTEN TO HIM SPEAK IN HIS OWN WORDS. here are several videos with the man laying things out for you
pleas take the time to do this. you get no more concrete evidence of how and why ray mcgovern says and thinks what he does
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=ray+mcgovern&um=1​&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv

Leese:

those are all excellent ray mcgovern videos on many important subjects, but these are a little more 9/11 specific from the man
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ray+mcgovern+9%2F11&hl=en​&sitesearch=

Bellerina:

As I said before, I doubt if there is anything I can say that will change your mind as to these conspiracy theories. Nor will I try any further.

As for me, I believe there are conspiracies that happen within our government and that many are hidden from the public. However, too many professional engineers, renowned scientists, and the media (both biased and reliable sources) have debunked the theories for me to believe in any of them. Not to mention that Osama Bin Laden even claimed credit for it, this is just too much for me to ignore.

Leese:

ben, i think your a smart guy, i would appreciate you listening to these interviews of john lear, son of bill lear, owner of lear jet corp. now i understand the language used in this interview and i think you might to, the average American dont know the lingo though, give me your take on the interview
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-190925973272794236&q=john​+lear+9%2F11&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=sear​ch&plindex=2

Leese:

here is a short but good read on hani hanjour, the "super pilot" we are told flew a plane in to the pentagon.
http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/badpilots.html

Leese:

hi ben, one more point id like to make with regards to loose change , the first film, they did make some errors, however the second and third documentaries are dead on accurate, but rather than focus on their errors, its very important that we look at what they got right, and look for answers. have you seen this? comments please.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5386487651203625811&q=911​+in+plane+site&total=221&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=​search&plindex=0

Gonzo:

If that is the case why didn't he report this at his morning intelligence meeting on 9-10. Must have been pretty crappy at his job. Haha head of the CIA doesn't know about a plot by his own government. Must have a lot of good sources. About as good as the ones telling him this right.

Brett:

Thats why he is FORMER head of the CIA.

Leese:

he was retired......duh

MizLiz:

It wasn't.Says things about your government,..they are so incompetent,they couldn't get this done.This is cover-up propaganda to save Jamie Gorelick and Patrick J Fitzgerald from being hanged for treasons,..they had 9-11-01 be from inside Federal Corrections Center,downtown Manhattan,used Mafia to send messages and the plans for 9-11 from Ramzi Yousef.
Why do they need to cover-up,9-11 was Ramzi Yousef?

JoH:

it was bigfoot "because he had big feet"

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